Why Global Citizenship is Essential with Brantley Turner
Brantley Turner is the founding principal of Qibao Dwight High School in Shanghai China, the only Sino-US independent, cooperatively run high school. In this conversation Scott Lee and Brantley Turner discuss Brantley's experiences as an administrator in shared Sino-US school and how her work shapes her beliefs in the importance of challenging assumptions and helping students become global citizens.
Links
Shanghai Qibao Dwight High School website
Asia Society National Chinese Language Conference
Apple partner Foxconn moving production to Vietnam story at Reuters: 2020 story and recent follow-up
Transcript
Scott Lee 0:26
Greetings friends and colleagues. Welcome to The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast, the professional educators thought partner, a service of Oncourse Education Solutions. I am Scott Lee. First off, I'm excited to welcome each of you to the opening episode of the 2023 season. It's hard to believe that this is the 45th episode published. Thanks for sharing in all of these conversations. My guest today is Brantley Turner, who will share her experiences from her various roles as an international educator, primarily as an administrator in China at the Shanghai Qibao Dwight High School and East Asia Education Director for the Dwight School. We will discuss how she challenges various assumptions people may have about Chinese culture, and the Chinese people, focusing on building connections and understanding between East and West. We begin our conversation discussing how she found herself in China and made the most of her opportunities to develop global citizens. Welcome Brantley to The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast.
Brantley Turner 1:50
Thanks for having me, Scott.
Scott Lee 1:51
I'm always curious how people end up doing what they're doing, you know, the happy accidents that take us places that we never planned? How did your interest in China come about or Chinese culture and that you ended up involved with even starting a school they're
Brantley Turner 2:08
Absolutely happy to share. So it is definitely a happy accident, I hate to say but I've often said I'm not really sure. The first time I went to China when I was 17 that I knew Beijing was the capital. You know, I hadn't had any exposure to Asia, I hadn't traveled a lot out of the US. I'm from New York, and I had an opportunity due to my parents work to at the time just travel to China, they wound up moving to Hong Kong in 1993. I was in college, so I didn't follow but I then started spending a lot of holidays, just got interested in the language, the people, the culture, something new. And it was kind of just a moment in time in my life. It came at a time when I had the access through higher education to take the language and learn more about Chinese history and culture. So really just stumbled into it. And it stayed interesting.
Scott Lee 2:58
And then you started a program called China Prep for teenagers. Tell us about this program and and what you think students learn from that experience.
Brantley Turner 3:09
So China Prep really grew out of things that I had access to in China as a market researcher. So I graduated from grad school in 2000, and was living in Shanghai. And I was working in market research and advertising, but focused on planning and research throughout that time, focused on youth. So I was doing work for Coca Cola for Nike, for different brands in China, and doing a lot of studies across the whole country qualitative study. So focus groups sitting down with people listening, and I can, you know, read and write and speak Chinese, which obviously helped. And I was so fascinated by the stories that I was hearing. So I had always wanted to work in education that just hadn't been as many opportunities aside from teaching English in those early days. So I was back in the United States, and I started a program to connect high school students, either with their schools, so taking school groups, or signing up for independent programs, to take students to China, and this was around 2005. And my message was, basically check it out. The Olympics are happening in 2008. You know, the economy was really booming in China and affecting us here in the United States. And I really believe in that people to people exchange and wanted to create opportunities for young people like I'd had.
Scott Lee 4:23
What do you think teenagers, both Chinese and American? Do you think they have adequate opportunities to learn about other cultures?
Brantley Turner 4:31
I think it's tough. I think that one of the challenges is when we really think about what's important when we're learning about other cultures, right? It's it's through history programs, we learn about dates, and we learn about facts and hopefully learn some stories. But it's that contextualizing of places that are different. I'm always somebody who is looking for commonalities as opposed to differences and it can be difficult. I know that a lot of teachers in our classrooms may feel that it's challenging to access information when they haven't had experiences themselves. How do they put that in context for their students. But just through so many different channels, we can grow that ability to step into other cultures and to appreciate other people, whether through literacy and reading programs in our schools, or just through being curious, asking questions, you know, wanting to know about other people, and those people may not even be outside the United States. So a starting point is being curious about those around us about cultural differences about different perspectives. And that skill set then bridges to really thinking about other countries and trying to find common ground as opposed to just looking for ways in which we're different.
Scott Lee 5:41
I used to be a history teacher myself, it was easy for me to engage my students when talking about places like Europe that where I had been, but places like China, it was always a little bit more difficult. Just because I had no real experience being to China or knowing that many people from China in particular, and I know it is easier now. What do you think teachers and history teachers, social studies, teachers might be able to do differently or should know more about China or Eastern cultures in general?
Brantley Turner 6:13
I think a great starting point for thinking about reflecting on what other cultures might be like. It's just starting with a good understanding of stereotypes, and really looking at stereotypes and thinking about bias, and then starting to apply that to say, Well, hey, you know, maybe we are applying a stereotype or bias to a context that we don't know much about, like you just said, Asia. And, you know, there are a lot of really interesting ways to think about tackling that challenge. One is obviously, again, through through literature and reading stories from other cultures. But if you think about this pre pandemic, let's take 2019 as an example, there were more than 300,000 Chinese National students studying in the United States, essentially, at any university community that you could find in your city, or in a nearby city, there will be a Chinese student group. And although it's such a, you know, maybe not a natural way that teachers might think about bringing different perspectives into their classes, if they don't have access to any one of Asian descent, or anyone who has spent any time in Asia, it could be very interesting to just connect into programs at universities, I think one of the things you'll find about a lot of Chinese students is that they would be interested in an opportunity to share about their own culture and their own perspective. And again, that doesn't have to be political, that can be about topics that are engaging in general architecture or the arts, learning about inventions in China for young for younger students, explorers, etc.
Scott Lee 7:46
It's interesting, I'm thinking about a past guest, James Dittes who had his students, he did a German exchange with his school at the time, and one of the things that the students that were involved in it in his German classes, they would write letters back and forth, they would write essays, and then send them to the students in Germany, and the German students would send essays back. And you know, and it was about things that were going on the time, there was a lot of interest there, and in the Black Lives Matter and censorship issues that we're facing, that we were facing in the US. And there was a real interest among German students in that as a young history teacher, I wish I thought of that when I was younger.
Brantley Turner 8:28
Absolutely. I mean, the program that he describes on that show is so robust, and really such an amazing opportunity, especially to be able to get on a plane and go and spend time with each other and do homestays. And I think that, you know, obviously, due to challenges with with getting to China at the moment, and it can be cost prohibitive, and can feel overwhelming to think about how would a school district or teacher particularly pull something off, but certainly I would start by looking at one's own community, not only are there are there families within the community, potentially, but also teachers, there still are Mandarin programs in school districts around the country. And those teachers tend to come from mainland China, unless they were already in the United States and are Chinese American. And those are really good ways to try to connect even just virtually, I mean, we know that Zoom has taught us so much about how we can connect virtually. And I think that I think you would find willing collaborators in those types of projects, if you can connect in with the right teacher. So just one quick reference on that the Asia Society has a Chinese Language Conference every year that happens in the United States. And if you look up the national Chinese language conference, you can find ways to connect. And I can certainly send some resources that you can share in the show notes about how to find those opportunities. Sure.
Scott Lee 9:50
Yeah, we'll definitely add have some links to those in the in the episode notes. But let's talk a little bit about I guess, kind of the bigger picture. Why Do you think it's important for people to think in terms of being a global citizen or globally aware? And that's kind of, I think, where this is taking us because teachers need to be thinking obviously about, "okay, what can I do in the classroom?" But also, you know, having that context. So can you speak a little bit about global awareness and global citizenship?
Brantley Turner 10:25
Like it or not, we live in a globalized and interconnected world, we do. From an economic perspective, from a shared problems, perspective, shared global issues, poverty, pollution, pandemics, I mean, we need to understand that and so I think, to be responsible to young people, we must bring to the forefront of their consciousness, that their world is not something that can can move forward in isolation. And so whether one calls oneself a global citizen or not, we must have a global awareness. And that is, I think, a great challenge facing all of us as we, as we isolate, and we separate, we fail to recognize that the world may not be ready to be isolated and separated, it's pretty interdependent.
Scott Lee 11:16
Another issue that we're running into here in the United States and our schooling, and you probably have an interesting perspective on it, because of the amount of time you spend in China. By the way, how much, how much time do you spend in China versus the United States just out of curiosity?
Brantley Turner 11:36
So I started going to China in 1993. And if you add it all up, probably had between 23-25 years on the ground in China. I did leave Shanghai this past July, and I'm in New York at the moment. But actually, the main project I'm working on these days is in northern Vietnam, in the city of Hanoi. So I'm spending a lot more time there. And people may think, "well, goodness, you, not like being in the US?". No, I love it. I mean, and I love being here, and I'd be happy to be living in the US. I've just had job opportunities that came up that were unique. And I felt like I still had the energy to pursue. And so I've just kept moving. But it's certainly not a reaction to the US. It's really more about just following following that thread of opportunity.
Scott Lee 12:19
So back to that bigger question. And with your time in China, that I that I think you might be able to shed some light on and something that, that we've talked about in several episodes of this podcast, with our listeners, is about issues around censorship. And there have been quite a few attempts, some successful, to openly and clearly censor what teachers are teaching, particularly the social studies, teachers. With your perspective and from living in a society that were censorship is quite normal, I was wondering if you could shed some light on that and kind of give us your perspective on what you think about that?
Brantley Turner 13:01
So first of all, the greatest gift to me of global citizenship or being globally aware of self awareness. And I think that the ability to take a lens that maybe in my case I've gained from spending time outside the US, but certainly I think you can still gain it from in the US, as long as you open your mind to, to this area is self awareness and turning that lens on your own context. So absolutely using a global lens to look at one's own situation domestically, or whether that's in your city or town is to start to think well, how does this look from the outside? And what does this mean? And what's another way of looking at this challenge? Or what, how do I put the shoe on the other foot and try to think about this from somebody else's perspective. And that should not be radical thinking. That shouldn't be the norm. But it does feel more and more complicated, and I don't like groupthink. And I don't like people shutting down to having uncomfortable conversations and uncomfortable dialogue and we need to be open to that and aware of that. And I think that I look at challenges about what teachers can teach and what teachers can say, very much through that lens of censorship and how that's a hallmark of authoritarian states. And certainly not something that that I think we should be welcoming in our Western liberal democracy. And it's, it's important to to look at it with that perspective, I will not be an apologist for China. But I also, you know, don't want to be in a situation in the United States where we are not allowing for the free exchange of ideas. I mean, that's a hallmark of what we're built on. And I think I believe in it so much more strongly, having spent all that time away from that, that value in that virtue.
Scott Lee 14:45
I'm curious too, and I know this is kind of another little aside, but I didn't realize about how much time you'd been spending in Vietnam. What do you think people Americans in particular should know about? Vietnam of today, and maybe the comparison between what's happening in Vietnam versus China?
Brantley Turner 15:06
Well, definitely, you know, that's a big, that's a big topic for us to explore. And I would start, I would add the caveat by saying that, you know, look, I studied China and, and have the language access, and I do not in Vietnam, and that's very scary. And I think I've tried to continue to be somebody who pushes myself to take on challenges and to not be afraid of failing, you've covered that on the show as well. And just sort of thinking, you know, what do I not know? And how can I approach this with an open mind open heart and try to learn so I think I have a long way to go before I can really speak to what's happening in Vietnam. But I would say that there's a very interesting story there, partially because of the alignment of sort of geopolitical significance in the in the region, and also economy. So folks may or may not know that Vietnam is the fastest growing economy in Asia. And it's obviously had a major change in its historical arc since the 1980s and I think Vietnam is ready to take their place and a new narrative. I think that from folks that I've talked to, they are very practical and pushing forward and open to lots of opportunities, and very focused and interested in education, and looking for that story and looking to be known for different things, you know, big news with with Apple starting to move production through Foxconn to the some of the Apple products in Vietnam. And I think we'll be looking to Vietnam's role in the supply chain, something that folks became all too familiar with during the pandemic, you know, those supply chain, supply chain shortages and changes. So I think it's sort of watch this space. And I'm trying to read more and learn more. And I spend about two, two weeks out of every eight weeks on the ground there, and I will be moving to Vietnam next next year in the summertime. And so certainly happy to check back in when I feel like I have more of an ability to speak about what I'm seeing and but so far, really interesting experience and just lucky for that opportunity.
Scott Lee 17:06
That does sound exciting. So I'd like to kind of switch back into a role you are more familiar with and have had more time with. Can you share a little bit about your role at Qibao Dwight High School and tell us how a Sino-US cooperative school works? Having been a school administrator, I'm I'm I'm kind of wondering, how would, how would you even do that? How would you put the pieces together?
Brantley Turner 17:35
Well, certainly, you know, schools are hard to run and joint ventures are really hard to run. So in a nutshell, Qibao Dwight is the only Sino-US cooperatively run independent High School in China approved by the Ministry of Education and it is a it is a project to provide international curriculum education to primarily Chinese national students, although international students are also allowed to attend in grades 10 through 12, we run the International Baccalaureate curriculum, and students who are Chinese nationals must also take for Chinese national subjects in order to qualify for the diploma from the school. You know, on a on a basic level, I look at it as an opportunity to have educated some very bright and amazing young people all of whom depart China for higher education, about 75% to the US and 25% students to other parts of the world for college. And on a bigger scale, it's really been my approach to try to contribute in an area that I feel like I can, you know, I have that ability to access bridging those cultures, I think of it as much as a bridge in as a bridge out. And to me, the worst possible outcome for two great powers like China in the United States is we stop talking to each other. And so I think educating young people to be motivated to keep the conversation going is critical. And I had again, we got it set up through Qibao, while it's a part of Shanghai, it's a part of the city. It's also a one of the high performing public high schools. So it's a public private partnership, and Qibao High School, you test into it through the national exam system. And then at our high school, again, we don't prepare our students for the higher education examination in China, although they are allowed to attend University in China. We don't actually prepare them for those exams, and hence the students do come abroad for school. So an amazing opportunity and these are young Chinese nationals taking full curriculum in English their second language, a very rigorous curriculum of the International Baccalaureate and I applaud them for their for their hard work and perseverance.
Scott Lee 19:43
Yeah, yes, I am familiar with the IB curriculum. And essentially, you have finished your freshman year of college even though you may not get credit for it when you've done it. Absolutely. Could you tell us any interesting or exciting stories that that might surprise people about at your work or about the students that you work with Qibao,
Brantley Turner 20:07
I think in you know, for students at Qibao, my role is or was for 10 years that I was their principal. And so people feel like that feel about their principal somewhat universally often [Scott Lee laughs], so I think a lot of my stories are unfortunately, them having to connect with me in my office for some reason that was generally related to their studying and their academics and their discipline and all of those good things that principals face. I think just the the real story of Qibao Dwight is we did it. I mean, we did that in a moment in time in 2013, we started applying to start the school and it was such a such a wild ride, just navigating all the different bo-, you know, bureaucratic bodies that needed to be met with and talk to, and we had to get a building up. And so I think it's, it's more of just an allegory or sort of, to say, you can do it, you know, if you if you get an opportunity, you know, opportunity knocks on your door, and it feels like how would we ever get this done. Qibao Dwight is just one of those examples out there in education that says you can still get things done that you feel are valuable and important, and often their chance. And it's just a moment in time that comes along. But I would say what I learned, I'm try to say yes to things person and just raise my hand and say, Well, I can live with the worst, worst case scenario on this, which is that it doesn't happen. But once I get comfortable with the worst case scenario, just keep on moving. And, you know, I would just say stories that I've tried to learn from, we kind of went first, globally in terms of taking students online during the pandemic, Qibao Dwight is a boarding school. And when Wuhan shut down and 2020, you know, we were on Chinese New Year break, and a lot of what I learned was just the incredible beauty and robust gift of working with a really strong team of teachers and educators. And I think, again, creating that community pulling communities together through through times of challenge. But we also did a lot wrong, we got a lot of things wrong with our students, I don't know that we were listening to them as well as we should have been, and, you know, paid the price on that and in different ways. So I think, again, just trying to have that spirit of if you can build a strong team, and you can come together with a common mission and a common vision. That's the process and the journey. And that's kind of what education is all about, not where you wind up. Sometimes it feels like it's all about outcomes, but doesn't mean that
Scott Lee 22:29
it's really not Yeah, it is about the journey. So just one more thing, if you could use your imagination, and there's no rules, what would be something that you think we should be doing or could be doing differently in schools? And I know we've kind of touched on that a little bit, I guess, maybe bigger picture your imagination, what would you like to see different about the way we do schools?
Brantley Turner 22:53
Well, I think, you know, I'm on a big picture, and you touch a lot of about this on the show in general is about inequity and the same opportunities are not available for all young people. And I think that that's the, that's the real educational crisis. And there's this discussion of teachers and teachers in society. I mean, I thought the pandemic would change the way in which a lot of people view the teaching profession from the outside and celebrate the absolute challenge of the craft of teaching and how difficult it is each day as a teacher to walk into a classroom or walk into a Zoom and teach and support young people. But that we're not there yet at all. And we're not there by a long a long shot. And so I would say just a continued lens on the fact particularly in the United States, but also globally, if we do not get education, right for young people, we are doing our futures. And so much so popular to focus on so many other topics in the world. And to me, this is just absolutely the most critical topic. We are shortchanging young people. And we don't need to be we live in a relatively developed society, unlike, you know, humankind has ever known and we're still not serving youth. Well. So I would think that that's my my crisis call is we have we have got to wake up to that crisis. And I don't I think we're a long way off from waking up to that crisis. On the sort of practical side of what I wish I could see more of every day is that I think we fail at helping young people and ourselves have difficult conversations, and being willing to embrace ideas and to sit with paradox and to try to learn how to walk people through that and keep doors open for talking. And I would say even the you know, I would question whether some folks listening to the podcast have had sort of a reaction to the fact that I spent so much time in China, I could understand that that could be very off putting to some folks. And I would just sort of say, like, let's open this up and try to look at this from from the standpoint of why that might be valuable for the world and, you know, to try to support that people have different paths. And I think that we spend too much time shutting down and coming Instead of sort of opening up and opening our hearts and minds to others, and I think that starts with supporting our students to learn how to navigate difficult conversations and things that make them uncomfortable.
Scott Lee 25:11
Excellent, excellent advice and something that we continue to advocate many of us continue to advocate for as well. Thank you so much for joining us today on the thoughtful Teacher Podcast. Brantley.
Brantley Turner 25:25
Thank you, Scott. It's a pleasure.
Scott Lee 25:30
The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast is brought to you as a service of Oncourse Education Solutions. If you would like to learn more about how we help schools and youth organizations embed social emotional learning within their cultures, and implement strengths based restorative interventions, please visit our website, www.oncoursesolutions.net. This has been episode one of the 2023 season. If you enjoy this podcast, please tell your friends and colleagues about it either in person or using social media. We also greatly appreciate positive reviews on the podcast app you use. The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast is hosted and produced by R. Scott Lee and is a copyright of Oncourse Education Solutions, LLC. We encourage diverse opinions, however, opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of producer, partners or underwriters. Guests are never compensated for appearance, nor do guests pay to appear. Transcripts are available following podcasts publication at our website, thoughtfulteacherpodcast.com. Theme music is composed and recorded by Audiocoffee, sponsorship opportunities or other inquiries may be made on the "Contact Us" page at our website, thoughtfulteacherpodcast.com. Please follow me on social mediam my handle on both Instagram and Twitter is @drrscottlee and on Mastodon @drrscottlee@ universedon.com
