Creating Well-being in a School with Steve Van Bockern
Schools can create a culture where students are challenged academically while also supporting the well-being of all students. In this conversation host Scott Lee and Steve Van Bockern discuss how the needs of students can be met without sacrificing academics.
Steve Van Bockern is author of Schools That Matter: Teaching the Mind and Reaching the Heart and is co-author with Larry Brendtro and Martin Brokenleg of Reclaiming Youth at Risk: Futures of Promise.
Links
Schools That Matter website-Steve Van Bockern’s official site
Reclaiming Youth At-Risk website
People mentioned in the episode
Martin Seligman page at Penn State Positive Psychology Center
Abraham Maslow bio from Brandeis University
Peter Benson and the Dali Lama conversation (YouTube)
Maria Montessori bio from Association Montessori Internationale website
Transcript
Scott Lee 0:32
Greetings friends and colleagues, welcome to the Thoughtful Teacher Podcast, the professional educator's thought partner, a service of Oncourse Education Solutions. I am Scott Lee. Our guest today is Dr. Steve Van Bockern a professor emeritus of education at Augustana University in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Before becoming a professor, Steve was also a teacher and a principal, along with colleagues, Larry Brendtro who joined us in the 2022 season, and Martin Brokenleg. Steve is co -author of the book, Reclaiming Youth At-risk: Futures of Promise. He is also a co-founder of the nonprofit organization, Reclaiming Youth International, which hosts professional development activities for educators and youth care professionals. His research interests include resiliency, alternative education, restorative practice, and well being in school settings. He is the author of the book schools that matter, teaching the mind and reaching the heart. Over the next two episodes, we'll share conversations about all of these topics.
Welcome, Steve, to the Thoughtful Teacher Podcast.
Steve Van Bockern 1:54
Well, it's a pleasure to join the program.
Scott Lee 1:58
Thank you for being here. Let's start by mentioning your work with the book Reclaiming Youth At-risk: Futures of Promise, which you co-authored with Martin Brokenleg and Larry Brendtro. As you know, last season, Larry and I talked a lot about the book and a lot about the changes to the new edition for 2019. Could you just remind us a little bit about the book itself and the major concepts?
Steve Van Bockern 2:28
Sure, I'd be happy to. It was way back in 1989, when Larry, and Martin and I got together three professors at a small university in South Dakota Sioux Falls, South Dakota called Augustana University. And we had conversations about what it is that kids need in order to do okay, a lot of those conversations were with a coffee cup in her hand and experiences under our belt. And it was clear that we all came from kind of different backgrounds with different information, Larry, as a psychologist, director of a large residential Institute in Michigan, Martin, theological background, sociology, background, and then I was an educator. And I started out as a classroom teacher, and then became a principal in Sleepy Eye, Minnesota for a number of years, thoroughly loved that and thought I would go that route until I was invited to join the Augustana faculty, and fell in love with that kind of teaching. That kind of world certainly appreciated the autonomy that was given to me as a as a professor. Yeah, and in the in that time, Larry, Martin and I just decided we, we pool our thinking, our ideas, and we ended up with a book called Reclaiming Youth At-risk: Our Hope for the Future. Now, in the third edition, we've changed it to Reclaiming Youth At-risk Futures of Promise. And it's it's, it's a shift in our thinking that went from just dealing in a sense with what were then called at-risk children. And now we even referred to them as children at risk with that as our focus to thinking about all of our children, as people with futures of promise, and just as all of us are, and so what we in essence did was come up with four key principles that we think all children must have in their being in order to do well, to be okay. And of course, being well doing okay can be defined differently, but in essence, our thinking was that we want children not only to survive, but to thrive, and to get through this world in safe and happy ways.
in ways that are productive and life giving for yourself and for others. And those four key principles came to us by looking at contemporary research. Maslow, Seligman, Peter Benson and others helped us think about what it is that children need in order to thrive. But we also looked at the work of youth work pioneers, people that thought differently about kids. Maria Montessori Montessori comes to mind, a lot of people recognize that name. She was one of those that thought differently about children and how they should be in the classroom setting. One of my favorite quotes from her has to do with her thinking that when she walked into the classroom, and she saw these kids, it seemed to her as if they were butterflies pinned to a display case. And Maria said, "I'll take the pins out, let them fly, let them move, let them be responsible and take actions for their for their own learning." So we used a lot of that kind of thinking from youth work pioneers, that thought work differently with kids. And then finally, we used which was quite novel, we used ideas that come came from indigenous ways of thinking about nurturing and guiding children, particularly from the plains of South Dakota, and and this region. And with Martin's background as a Lakota. It soon became clear that their ideas about working with kids, and how they thought of kids was really quite different. And we tapped into that a case in point or an idea, for example, is that oftentimes people think of children as property, beings in progress, that don't necessarily deserve the same respect that we give to adults. And in native culture. That wasn't the case. In the Sioux language, Lakota language wacon means "sacred being" and that was the name given to children. And so when you think about kids as sacred beings, you know, you respond and, and react differently to them than if you think of them as chattel or property, something that you can do anything with. So with, with all of that, kind of fold it in, and we ended up taking those ideas and translated them into four key needs, belonging, mastery, independence and generosity. We placed those ideas around the native Medicine Wheel, some called sometimes called the Sacred Hoop. The circle itself is important in that it demonstrate how demonstrates how all of these needs are connected, all of them influence one another. And, in essence, without going into great detail, here's a simple way of thinking about a child's human needs. Belonging could be considered to be captured in a simple statement, like, I need to be loved. I need to have someone cared for me to look out for me, to nurture me to guide me, I need to be loved. The concept of mastery goes beyond what most teachers think about as mastery, or this idea of getting a certain percentage on a test score a math or reading exam. For us, mastery has to do with this internal sense that you have that "I can do things I'm capable." Bandura's research about self efficacy taps into how we think about mastery, this idea that I I am capable. For independence, the simple little phrase would be I will power oftentimes has been criticized as something that's bad. In actuality, that power is something we all need. It just needs to be used appropriately. And for us, that is a need that children have to have a sense of responsibility, a sense of ownership, a sense of being able to make choices, and to take responsibility for those choices. All of that's wrapped up into this idea of independence. I will and then finally, the fourth identified need for it for children to do well, is this idea of generosity, preeminent value and native culture, to give to share. And so are thinking to based on the psychological research and what we're hearing from these youth work pioneers is that this need to feel like I can help, that I can be useful that I can serve, that I can give, that I live my life outside of myself is powerful for the psyche of a child. Now, over the years to what I've concluded is that it's not just kids that have these as basic needs, these are our basic needs to as adults, and more specifically, in my professional work with with teachers, I think they are fundamental for the life of a school person, to have those needs met, to feel like their love. They're capable, that they have some power, and that they're able to help and to give back. When those needs are met in the adults, I think there is a transference value that happens as kids begin to see that and feel that in the school and in the classroom. It's it's with that understanding that I decided to take the work that Martin and Larry and I've gotten over the years and kind of translated into my own personal, if you will, almost a Malhar eaching days. But But of course trying to include the research and the ideas in a way that helps me explain my thinking about what I think a school that matters looks like.
Scott Lee 11:55
And it is interesting that you mentioned that it's almost a memoir, a personal journey, you probably don't remember us having a conversation in probably 2009, I think when you were first toying with this idea, and you had a PowerPoint presentation, and it was more about what a school should be doing. So what school should be doing what the adults in a school, you should be doing and feeling. And, you know, I actually took that draft and used it with faculty in the school that I was the director of at the time, which was a residential alternative school, and working on changing the adults perception about resilience and about these basic needs of, of belonging, mastery, independence, or autonomy, and generosity. And what that looks like, as a teacher really changed, change some minds in a very positive way. Because it is sometimes so different from I don't know if mindset is the right word. But the however you describe the way you focus and look at things and the way you you the schema that you build in your mind about what it is that I should be doing. As a teacher, as an educator, that was very different.
Steve Van Bockern 13:29
You know, for me, I don't want to dismiss what most people think about schooling, the purpose of schooling, which is related to academics, may be connected to our mastery part of the circle. And that's powerful. That's important. But the perspective I'm trying to share is that I think what needs to happen in schools is this perspective that says, We want a sense of, of well being in this place, not only for the students, but also for the teachers. I mean, why would anybody want to go to work in a place where there wasn't joy, and a sense of energy and a sense of purpose, a sense of connectedness going on? I mean, it was one of the reasons why I became a teacher after experiencing in aiding, and observing in classrooms, the joy that can be felt in classrooms, when the teachers are engaged with kids and in friendly and honest and open ways where there's a genuine sense of life actually happening. You know, Dewey talked about the fact that education oftentimes is looked at as something that we're preparing our students for in the future. He's got that right. Those that think that way, partially right. But do we also said oh, education is for right now. It sits for the living right now. And so, in many ways what's going on in our classrooms, while it is preparation should also be a place that allows us as both adults and, and kids to enjoy our lives. I mean, we're spending a lot of time in those four walls and in that building, so why not make it a place where needs are being met. And in many ways, my argument is that when needs are met, we will experience the sense of well being as both an adult or as a child, too. So we're always looking for ways to find connections, belonging, relationships, we're always looking for ways to feel like we're learning and moving forward with new ideas, new thinking, new ways of going about living, we're always looking for ways to, to make choices to take responsibility for our lives. And finally, we're looking for ways to be helpful. And when that happens, we do okay. Now, here's the deal. You know, as human beings, we're never, never is, too much of a word to use here. But we're not always in the center of the circle experiencing those things. I mean, part of the human condition, and having way said it this way, they'll all have a slip broken lives, and then some are stronger in the broken places. And I think that's true that none of us serve, or it's difficult to be in the center of the circle all of the time. I mean, we experienced failed relationships, at times, we feel like failure, not very capable, very competent. At times, we feel powerless, like a puppet on a string. And other times we, we wonder about our purpose and what our role is, and, and those times hurt. Those can be painful times, but most of us who have grown up in the presence of capable, loving, smart, independent, helping adults, when we're not in the center of the circle, can get pulled back in by the examples and the modeling of, of other people. And most of us have experienced that, although, like you, you know, we've been with kids that their needs have not been met at all, they've never experienced love, being successful, being independent in the right ways, or being able to give back and, and those those kids are difficult to work with. Yeah, it takes a certain kind of mindset to understand that and to be able to move toward them, rather than away from them. Because our tendency as a human being, of course, is to move away from the other. Those that scare us, make us fearful, don't act like us, don't share our values. That makes us nervous to move away from those kids that matter. We're trying to move toward them.
Scott Lee 18:22
Now it is kind of hard sometimes. Because yeah, a lot of times the the more difficult kids, when you try and create an environment that promotes wellness and joy. It's such a different environment that those same kids will oftentimes push us away as well making it of course, more difficult on both sides, and you can really end up adults sometimes, and I still see it in schools today, you end up in that negative cycle of pushing each other away. And because it's comfortable for it's more comfortable for the kid, and it's more comfortable for the adult. And I
Steve Van Bockern 19:05
think you're right. I mean, sometimes these concepts, these ideas seem pollyannish for a lot of folks, and in some ways they can be infused with kids that have only experienced the other side. By the other side. I'm talking about more traditional ways of punishing, delivering curriculum and so on. A lot of those kids don't know anything different than this demarcation between adults and kids and a sort of a dark and somber feeling when you walk into the environment. That's all they know. And then all of a sudden you bring in some of these ideas of joy and hope and kids making choices and kids helping one another. And it's like, that's not the way it is and nobody knows quite how to to move that culture by From that very negative, dark centered way of thinking about education and kids to more light and an open way of dealing with children. However, when I say nobody, we think we have some ideas about.
Scott Lee 20:15
Well, and and from, from my experience, what I found is that the real frustration was the amount of time that it seems like it's taking when you do try and make that change. So it's a multi year process, which again, it goes, it kind of goes back to the research, any, you know, any serious, transformational change was a three to five year process in a school. And I mean, there's a lot of different things that that people have looked at to see that that's the case.
Steve Van Bockern 20:52
Well, that matches with what we know about how the brain learns to I mean, the brain is really good at creating patterns of knowledge. And those patterns of knowledge are based on experiences, what we live with what we see, and kids that have experienced, in a sense, a trauma, or negativity, or certain ways of doing things, even in a school environment, those patterns get set in the brain. And it takes years of other ways of doing three years of experiencing safety, for example, to get over trauma that maybe has been experienced. And yeah, that that, that takes times and I think it can be discouraging for teachers, because they feel like if they come to kids with an open hand, you know, trying to help them understand how I'm here to help. And then their their hand gets bit by the very, it's like, "Okay, I'm done with this." So there needs to be lots of support within a school building. Lots of help lots of understanding lots of patience to move, to move the culture to a different place that I think most teachers were looking for when they got into the profession in the first place. But they end up experiencing something quite different, particularly schools that are so focused on the data, in sorting kids earning, you know, the academic achievers, compared to those that aren't and, and then, you know, this whole race to the top. Just, it doesn't excite them after a while. And I think intuitively begin to experience that this isn't the most important thing. It's important, and I don't want to dismiss are teaching kids how to read and do mathematics and so on. But the human being is so much more complex than that. And if we neglect the arts, if we neglect the the relationships that are so necessary and powerful in our in our lives, we're missing a whole lot. And I think it's one of the reasons teachers are leaving education in droves is that they're just tired of this, this climbing the ladder of of success, whatever that means. And they don't know what it means. If we neglect all parts of what we are as human beings.
Scott Lee 23:36
It reminds me to we talk about the "Race to the Top" and the goal of testing. And I don't want to I don't want to belabor that and like to move on away from that actually. But it does pop into my head just because another episode that I was editing just yesterday, I'm talking with Matthew Courtney, and he's talking about the data that teachers are using in the classroom. And usually the state testing data is not the most important thing. One of the examples he mentioned, and you're talking about, you know, trauma and schools and he's like, you know, he's like the the piece of data that I keep telling teachers to focus on, is you've got a phone number for a kid that's in a database that you have access to all the time, you know, your electronic gradebook, whatever program it is. And he's like, if you start looking at the number of times that a kid or a kid's phone number changes, that's telling you you've got a student who you should be worried about because you have a transient student. And I just I keep thinking about that when we keep talking about data, the testing and the Race to the Top mentality. We've got So much better data that schools and teachers have access to that they that are not considered important. And yet, that's, that's what we need to be looking at a lot more.
Steve Van Bockern 25:13
Right. That kid that's sitting out on along the fence at playground time, himself, recess after recess, that's powerful data kid that doesn't get invited to to play in the games out at recess or in the classroom. That's significant data. It smells when they walk into the classrooms important data, we could go on and on about what really isn't significant and important information. But we tend to ignore that or minimize it. At the most, or at least. And I think some of that is because you know, there was a time when if kids didn't respond or act like we wanted them to in schools, we could just dismiss them. And they quit after a certain period of time and just walk away. But yeah, kids are with us. Yeah, either. So
Scott Lee 26:14
when I was in college, I work in the summers, I worked the incline railway in Chattanooga, it is run by our local public transportation system. And so the people that are working there full time, have good high paying jobs. Well, there are a couple of couple of those guys, high school dropouts, and they could get good high paying jobs at the time. When kids are dismissed from school, either by their choice or our choice or some combination, we're now forcing them into a life of the it's not going to be happy not going to be joyful. I mean, you can't make a living wage anymore, legally or illegally without the very least a high school diploma and something beyond that. And so belonging and mastery are important in a lot of ways beyond that, right?
Steve Van Bockern 27:11
You know, for me this, schools have a responsibility to teach this emotional intelligence, and Goleman. And his best selling book, emotional intelligence, why it can matter more than IQ makes the argument up front. And, you know, I'm sure it would take someone with the ability to check his work, more than I have to question when he says that 70% of our success in life is based on our emotional intelligence, not necessarily our academic intelligence. And so I think it is important for all of our children, to have the opportunity to understand what it means to be an emotionally intelligent person. And, you know, I like I like the definition that Salovey uses, which is, in essence, you know, an emotionally intelligent person, understands their emotions, and can manage them, understands the emotions of others and can manage those can motivate self and can also build healthy relationships. And I think schools have a responsibility to all of our students whether or not they opt out because they would rather get involved and work right away. Or stick around for opportunities to go on to university, I think it's essential that kids be given a sense of those important emotional skills. And all of those connect to civility and the way we talk to one another, and the way we exchange ideas and so on, which I think we're, we're missing today, and particularly in our political worlds. And so, yeah, I would agree with you that we don't want to force kids out. And I think we're beginning to understand the value of what, you know, I would have called vocational schools at one time now, what are oftentimes referred to as technical institutes. No alternative programming, programming that gets kids often involved in work related businesses. That's all good too. And I think underlying any one of those professions any any directions our students go is the importance of helping them with social emotional skills and I would make the argument that the best way to teach those things is for kids to be around social, emotionally competent adults. Absolutely essential for them to see how adults handle conflict, how to engage one another, how to make argumentation without getting mad or angry or spitting on each other's faces. I think all of that is valuable information that comes from kids watching. competent adults loving and powerful adults.
Scott Lee 30:39
In the next episode of the Thoughtful Teacher Podcast, Steve Van Bockern and I will continue our conversation, discussing more specifically about what happens in schools that adopt a model, like the Circle of Courage. The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast is brought to you as a service of Oncourse Education Solutions. If you would like to learn more about how we help schools and youth organizations, embed social emotional learning within their cultures, and implement strength based restorative interventions, please visit our website, www.oncoursesolutions.net. This has been episode two of the 2023 season. If you enjoy this podcast, please tell your friends and colleagues about it either in person or using social media. We also greatly appreciate positive reviews on the podcast app you use. The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast is hosted and produced by R Scott Lee. And as a copyright of Oncourse Education Solutions, LLC. We encourage diverse opinions. However, opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of producer, partners, or underwriters. Guests are never compensated for appearance, nor do guests pay to appear. Transcripts are available following podcast publication at our website, thoughtfulteacherpodcast.com Theme music is composed and recorded by Audio Coffee, sponsorship opportunities or other inquiries may be made on the "Contact Us" page at our website thoughtfulteacherpodcast.com And please follow me on social media. My handle on both Instagram and Twitter is @drrscottlee and on Mastodon @drrscottlee@universedon.com
