Teacher Advocacy with Sanford Johnson
Guest Sanford Johnson and host Scott Lee take a deep dive into teacher advocacy and action. Sanford is the Mississippi Executive Director for Teach Plus and has previously served as Deputy Director for the policy and advocacy organization Mississippi First. A former US History teacher, he is also known for his work as a founding member of the Mississippi Sex Ed Training Cadre.
Outline
The “Sock Video”
Censorship and missing history
Teach Plus Mississippi advocacy for improved compensation and mental health
Victories in Teach Plus advocacy
Links
Mamie Till-Mobley entry in Mississippi Encyclopedia
Fannie Lou Hamer background on PBS American Experience
Aaron Henry bio from SNCC Digital Archive (not to be confused with professional basketball player and professional soccer players of the same name)
Teach Plus Mississippi website
Transcript
Scott Lee 0:00
Greetings friends and colleagues. Welcome to the Thoughtful Teacher Podcast, the professional educators thought partner, a service of Oncourse Education Solutions. I am Scott Lee. I hope you're safe and well. Today we talk about teacher advocacy with Sanford Johnson. Sanford has been the executive director of Teach Plus Mississippi since 2020. Mississippi Policy Fellows have been involved in increasing teacher pay, strengthening the state's teacher pipeline and increasing access to mental health resources. Sanford also supports the work of Teach Plus Arkansas, which launched a policy fellowship and teacher network in 2021. Prior to joining Teach, Plus, Sanford was the deputy director and co-founder of Mississippi First an education policy research and advocacy organization. He also served as a founding member of the Mississippi Sex Ed Training Cadre. Sanford serves on the board of Teen Health Mississippi, the Mississippi Alliance of Nonprofits and Philanthropy and chairs the Clarksdale Municipal Elections Commission. we'll start our conversation discussing a unique YouTube video that he and some colleagues created. Welcome Sanford Johnson to the Thoughtful Teacher Podcast.
Sandford Johnson 1:35
That's a pleasure. Thank you so much, Scott, good to see you today.
Scott Lee 1:38
Good to see you, too. Tell us a little bit about your background in education. And then how you came to your present role at Teach Plus in Mississippi.
Sandford Johnson 1:48
Sure, sure. So um, I was born in the Mississippi Delta. I've been to Mississippi, definitely a child of Mississippi product of public schools in Mississippi. My father was a educator and I come from a long a family that's full of like uncles and aunts who were educators did not have any interest in going into education. When I graduated from high school. In fact, I left Starkville High School in 1998 thinking, Well, I'm done with Mississippi and going off and never took return except for like vacations and stuff like that and ended up getting an opportunity to work in Mississippi, the summer 2002 and connected with a hometown friend of mine. I was during that experience, I became all things Mississippi like look, I all these challenges that I heard about the state dealing with like dropouts, teen pregnancy, like our schools aren't good enough. The economy is not where it needs to be in by the end of that summer, I was all about okay, what can I do to help like, I'm a Mississippi and I need to go back. Um, I originally thought that I wanted to go to Capitol Hill and work with legislators on doing things to improve education. I had a good friend of mine who told me about Teach for America. And that's actually what got me in the classroom initially got a job opportunity to go to Capitol Hill, turn it down to teach US history. Coahoma County High School in Clarksdale, Mississippi. So I said, Okay, well, I'll do that for two years. And I'll go off to law school, go to Capitol Hill, and 18 years later, still, in the Delta still working in education. My wife was a core member who's now school leader. And now we have we bought a house in the Delta, our kids are here in the delta. So this is what really connected me with education. So I thought that it was like if somebody would go back to talk to me as an 18 year old and say, Hey, you're going to live in the Delta, you're going to be working in education, I probably would have laughed in their face because I knew I was headed to the city. I was heading far away from here. And it's funny how life works out sometimes.
Scott Lee 3:49
Similar thing I never thought I'd be back here in-ah in Chattanooga, I thought I was going to go to college, I thought I was going to go to law school and end up in Atlanta, you know, and [laughs]
Sandford Johnson 4:01
so the initial plan was to be an architect. I was going to design sports stadiums. So I just knew that I was headed off and the next big ballpark or football stadium, that's what I was gonna get to do. And, yeah teaching US history in Clarksdale. I've been working in education for several years, co founding an education policy, nonprofit, eventually making my way to Teach Plus it's funny because I'm doing work now that I don't even think I knew existed when I was in high school. So it's a it's funny how life works and just end up on a path.
Scott Lee 4:36
We'll come back to some of the things that Teach Plus is doing right now. In in just a few minutes, I want to mention something else, the first place that our paths crossed, you have no idea about because about 10 years ago, I saw a YouTube video that you posted called "the sock activity". And I'll let you set up the sock activity in just a minute. And we'll put a link to this YouTube video on our website for our listeners to see, I think about the sock activity, especially right now, with so many issues around censorship, particularly here in the south and in a lot of places in the midwest, there's a lot of calls, as you know, going on, for removing books from either either as curricular materials, or from school libraries. I think about that with a lot of concern. I'm wondering, first off, if you can tell us a little bit about the sock activity video and how that came about. And we can talk just a little bit about censorship as well. So start us off, frame us with the sock activity video.
Sandford Johnson 5:56
So there I was. [laughing] this was 2012. We, this is when I was working at Mississippi first, there was a education policy organization I co-founded, we were working with school districts around this new sex ed policy, we had worked out a deal with school districts where like, you know, you get free curricula, you get free training, you get free technical assistance from the State Department of Health if you commit to doing a more comprehensive version of sex ed. So it wasn't just asking us only but it talks about like, decision making. It talked about, like, you know, effective use of condoms, it talks about like, all the things that you need in order to be healthy.
Scott Lee 6:41
And what the research shows is the correct way to do the holistic sex ed type of program, which is more than just sex ed?
Sandford Johnson 6:49
Absolutely, absolutely. So it's about like how to set boundaries, how to communicate those boundaries, how to respect the boundaries, how to how to be in a healthy relationship. So like, very much, much broader than what the state was originally doing. I have some stories about that later. But this is during a training and the law that was passed in Mississippi that required districts to do sex a it like you had to adopt either an abstinence only or an abstinence plus policy. There were a lot of restrictions in that abstinence plus policy. And one of the restrictions was, you cannot do any demonstrations, or like, like any demonstrations about the use of condoms, so no condom demonstrations during this training, there was a trainer that came from California. And we were just giving the steps like step by step, how do you use a condom? But she was someone who could not share the steps without pantomiming the steps. So as she was doing that, like somebody from the Department of Health said, no, no, you can't do that. Because the state may say, that's the kind of demonstration. So she ended up like giving the steps with our hands behind her back. And we thought it was kind of ridiculous. So we just started making jokes about how ridiculous this is, like, what can we do to make fun of this, the video that was created was really just a really just a joke. Like, it was just how do we make fun of this? Like, you know, like, this is like, Could we do something like this. So I brought a pair of socks. The next day, I got a good friend of mine who, who just pulled out her iPhone, and we recorded it. And it was just something that I shared on Facebook just with a couple of friends that just making fun of the law. And we ended up putting it on YouTube. And it just went viral.
Scott Lee 8:35
And so that's it's gotten like one and a half million views or something maybe more. It seems like I haven't looked at it a while but it's been huge.
Sandford Johnson 8:45
So it has gone viral like once or twice. If I tried to do something like that. I don't think I can be successful. It's the it's amazing. Like how little effort you created that video. Yeah, it was like the wildest thing that I've heard. There was a teacher in Malaysia, who sent me this random message out of nowhere, just hey, I recreated the sock video is that okay? If I use it, I was like, Sure. There's no copyright on this. And, you know, it's been funny just to see other teachers like come up with other examples. I remember there was this one video where somebody used an oven mitt protect your hands by using another mitt every time but I think it really speaks to and I think this is why it resonates so much. I think it really speaks to the resourcefulness of teachers and how teachers are always trying to find a way to get like there's so many restrictions but this is how we're going to get around this if I'm not going to get our supplies that um give me some all magazines give me some cardboard tubes like I create if I cannot go to this particular you know field trip, I'm going to bring the speaker to me like I going to get the information to my kids one way or the other. So You know, I just I think the resourcefulness of teachers is something that really stands out to me.
Scott Lee 10:05
You kind of walked right into, you know, the other issue and the issue of censorship but also the issue of what do you do and under under resourced classroom, I still remember early career social studies teacher asking everybody, do you have old National Geographics, or, you know, whatever, or go into the Goodwill store to find things like that to use in a classroom? Because the textbook just wasn't enough? Also, how this connects with censorship and the issues around censorship? Are there any thoughts that you have for teachers around censorship? And how to, you know, either how to work around it, or like you have use your creativity? Or are there more formal ways that we could be active as a profession to prevent censorship or mitigate censorship.
Sandford Johnson 11:00
So I feel like that's coming up a lot, especially when it comes down to how we discuss history, and how we discuss race in our classrooms. And coming from Mississippi, you can imagine that that comes up a whole lot.
Scott Lee 11:14
Sure.
Sandford Johnson 11:15
There have been some interesting conversations that I've witnessed with teachers around the story of Emmett Till, I don't know if you saw "A Woman of the Movement", so that was a series that came out that talked about Mamie Till-Mobley and her son Emmett Till, who's, you know, like, that's really sparked the civil rights movement.
Scott Lee 11:34
Right.
Sandford Johnson 11:35
And it was interesting to hear from teachers how often they heard from students who did not know the story, who had never heard of Emmett Till before who did not know not only about his murder, but the impact that his murder had on American history. And it was "Wow," because so many of my teachers are from the Delta. So if I live in Clarksdale, we're less, we're about 40 minutes away from where that story took place. And to have students who live in this community who don't know about the history that happened right in their backyard. And you know, you say the same thing about students who didn't know about Fannie Lou Hamer, students who didn't know about Aaron Henry. There's so few students who had never heard of Freedom Summer before,
Scott Lee 12:18
Right,
Sandford Johnson 12:19
just thinking about all the history that our students don't know about. And I think teachers have a real great opportunity to be able to expose students to the history that took place in their backyard. And like the giants that came from this area, like you have an obligation to share that information. In terms of, you know, indoctrination. I don't hear teachers talking about indoctrination, I hear teachers talk about how to make their students critical thinkers, like how to get them to really have a have an opinion about something, but to be able to back it up with facts, how to have conversations have how to have disagreements like cordial, constructive disagreements with their classmates, with something that adults should have a lot better job on. And also thinking about how to create affirming environments within their classrooms, making sure that all students feel welcome, feel cared for. That means whether you're student of color, whether you are LGBTQ. Like regardless, like the like making sure that every person in the classroom feels like we want you here, we welcome you, we love you. And we're going to provide you with the education that you need. So that's, that's what I hear teachers talking about. I don't hear teachers talking about, like, this student believes this, and I disagree with it. So how do I get them to change their thinking or anything like that? Like, how do I equip my students with the skills that they need in order to be like, like, well adjusted adults who are like engaging conversations that can have opinions that can participate in their society? Yeah,
Scott Lee 13:51
I do worry, because you mentioned Emmett Till. And, in particular, one of the things that that I have heard a teacher say recently is they would be concerned about Emmett Till, discussing lynching and civil rights. Rosa Parks, and the Birmingham bus boycott is okay. But I'm a little bit more concerned about issues that are focused more on violence and racially motivated violence. You know, here in Tennessee, there's literally in the in the law, when you're discussing issues of race, you potentially can't make a student feel uncomfortable, and the word "uncomfortable" is actually written in the law itself. And, you know, try to define that. It is an issue that I know I find concerning and I hear a lot of people talking about, about their concerns with that and so glad to keep hearing voices that are saying, you know, we're not indoctrinating kids. We're not trying to censor kids.
Sandford Johnson 14:51
I'm always interested in the word like uncomfortable because when lawmakers talk about students being comfortable, are they talking about all kids are the only talking about white kids.
Scott Lee 15:03
I will say it is my opinion I think it is directly an issue of race. And I think it is about making white students uncomfortable. And of course, no black legislator voted for the law in the first place.
Sandford Johnson 15:18
I had an experience when I was an eighth grade teacher. I was able to create a civil rights tour. This is I was teaching at a school in Arkansas. And each grade did like an end of the year trip. So our trip was a civil rights tour the south. So we went through Nashville and we got to meet with people who participated to sit in, they were members of SNCC. We went through Atlanta, we went to the MLK center, we went to went to church and Ebenezer actually heard Reverend Warnock and who knew? Right, so yeah, you know, heard him we went to Morehouse went to Spelman. We went through Alabama, we also had this experience, we stayed at a hotel in Birmingham. And there was a class-, a 50 year class reunion that was taking place. And I just happened to connect with one of the people there and just saying, "Hey, I've got this group of eighth graders who are learning about the civil rights movement. So you got folks in that reunion who were there who were in Birmingham, who do the girls who were killed at 16th Street Baptist Church, who were able to come over and tell -bout, talk to the students about this is what it was like to be in Birmingham back then". The kind of information that you just can't get in a textbook. And like that was it was uncomfortable. It was uncomfortable to hear those stories, but it's a part of our history. Um, I think when you're talking about US history, I think you need to, like you really can't tell the story about how far we've come as a country to without really looking at where we started, all the different things that had to happen for us to get there. And then to think about all the uncomfortable things that we're gonna have to do in the future, like you have to, you have to tell the whole story, warts and all, like, all the good, all the bad,
Scott Lee 17:10
I agree. My thought has always been that if you're not a little bit uncomfortable, at some point during a history class, then as a teacher, I haven't been doing my job. You know, there's a reason why even, you know, in the preamble to the Constitution, they use the word "a more perfect union", they understood there was still warts and all, there was still a long way to go. I often worry about every time we seem to take a step forward, we end up taking a couple of steps back in making sure we teach history to the fullest. Let's get back to Teach Plus, because I really want to make sure and share what all Teach Plus does. Tell us a little bit about the work of Teach Plus fellows and alumni, particularly what you all are doing in Mississippi.
Sandford Johnson 18:00
Sure, sure. So what really got me excited and the work that Teach Plus, I had some opportunities, like over the past decade in education policy to work with teachers, and to get teachers involved in policymaking, whether it was working with a group of teachers to be able to share, like their thoughts on implementing the new college and career ready standards, or working with teachers with creating these parent nights that took place around sex ed, in both of those instances, like the main takeaway for me was that people trust great teachers, like politicians trust great teachers, like, like principals, trust great teachers, parents trust great teachers, there were so many experiences where folks were concerned about what was happening in classrooms, but you have a teacher saying this is what's happening. I'll give you a great example. So there was legislation that would have gotten rid of the new Common Core College and Career Ready Standards, though one person, there was one teacher who I think was responsible for saving those standards in Mississippi. And she literally had a whiteboard in front of the legislature in front of like these House and Senate Education Committee members, and explaining, this is how we used to teach math. This is how we teach math now, this is why we're changing this night. So going into detail, like literally working out math problems in front of legislators. And you can see legislators with papers turned around, like trying to do the math problems themselves. And there was one, there was one senator who said, I wish I would have learned math like this would have been better for me if I knew math this way. So at that moment, I thought it was interesting to see policymakers hear from a teacher saying, This is what I'm teaching your kids. This is this is how we're changing things. And we saw the exact same thing with sex ed, just, "here's what I'm gonna be teaching your kids we're gonna teach them how to set boundaries and how to communicate those boundaries". So I was looking for so long, how do I how do I find a role where I can have these opportunities all the time. And that's exactly what Teach Plus has been able to do. We work with a group of about two dozen teachers. And we give them policy skills. So we give them research skills, advocacy skills, they learn how to communicate with policymakers, they learn how to reach out to their colleagues and get them involved in policymaking. And while we're doing that, we also give them opportunities to influence policy issues that are taking place right now. So we have a group that's working on teacher compensation, we have a group that's working on how do we recruit and retain teachers in Mississippi, we have a group that's looking at licensure, and how do we better prepare teachers who are entering the profession. And then we also have a group is focusing on the SEL needs of students, the mental health needs of students and teachers. So all these different groups, and some of these groups are working with legislators, maybe they're working with the districts, maybe they're even working with the State Department of Education, but they're all like, super busy, they're learning these skills. And the whole idea is that you're doing all this work this year, and you're working to have an impact on policymaking this year. But we're hoping that you'll also continue these continue to use these skills in the future, either at the state level or at the district level.
Scott Lee 21:17
What kinds of things are the group that's working on teacher compensation doing? And what kinds of successes are they having so far?
Sandford Johnson 21:25
Sure. Sure. You know, first and foremost, like the starting salary for Mississippi teachers, right now, it's around 37,000, which is amongst the lowest starting salaries in the country. And a lot of teachers from what we've heard, like a lot of teachers don't see education as a sustainable, like career path anymore. We've heard from teachers who are saying, like, I'm telling my kids tonight, go into education, because if you want to have a good quality of life, like you're not going to get that as a teacher. And, you know, you always hear you know, this comment about, you know, teachers go into the profession not expecting to be rich, right. But teachers want to be able to teach and not have to do a second job, they want to be able to take care of their family, they want to be able to pay the bills, they want to be able to buy a house, they want to be able to afford health insurance, the fact of the matter is a lot of teachers do not feel like they can do that. So they are leaving, they are leaving for other states that provide higher salaries are leaving for other professions that not only have higher salaries, but maybe a lighter workload, so you're not working like all your evenings and all your weekends. So if we're going to hold on to teachers, if we're going to recruit more people to teach in Mississippi, we have to improve salaries, we have to improve benefits. So that's exactly what we're working on right now. parda. And there are a lot of great organizations that have been doing similar work in Mississippi. And I think there's an opportunity for us to get something substantial out of the legislature this year, we surveyed teachers across the state to find out what would they prioritize when it came down to teacher compensation. And, you know, we're still in the process of analyzing those results, we hope to have a policy brief release soon. But the big takeaway is that we're going to have to do something substantial, when it comes down to increasing teacher salaries. Because if we don't do that, we're going to lose a lot of teachers, they're going to be folks who are going to continue to leave the profession. And then there's gonna be a lot of folks who are going to try to do everything else, but teach, because they're not going to see teaching as a viable pathway.
Scott Lee 23:26
When I was teaching, every summer I had a job, you know, I had a summer job just just like when I was a student, and you know, in high school till I got into administration, that was the only time I could actually make enough money to give up my summer jobs.
Sandford Johnson 23:40
We've heard from so many teachers who are saying, Look, I teach during the day, and then I'm a bartender, or DoorDash, or I tutor extra kids. And then there are a lot of folks who say I went into administration unnecessarily, because like that was what I wanted to do. But that was the only way to be able to get a higher salary. Um, there are also a lot of teachers who say, look, I went back to grad school, I got a master's. And that master's was incredibly expensive, but it was the only way to increase my salary, even though now like a lot of my salary is going towards paying for that master's that I got right, in order to get the highest out. Yeah, it is. It is tough for teachers, and they are. I think we're in a crisis right now. I feel like, you know, this was a challenge before the pandemic. And I think during the pandemic, it's only gotten worse. So I'm really concerned about our ability to attract teachers and keep teachers if we don't do something substantial right now. Like right now,
Scott Lee 24:42
right? Yeah, exactly. It was nearing crisis before the pandemic. You're right. We've hit the iceberg now.
Sandford Johnson 24:50
Yes, yes. So smack dab into it
Scott Lee 24:54
the other big issue. Teach Plus is working on right now amongst those four is SEL and Mental Health?
Sandford Johnson 25:00
Yes
Scott Lee 25:02
Tell us about that.
Sandford Johnson 25:04
Since the start of the pandemic, we have heard from teachers on numerous occasions. So we did a big survey of teachers to find out, what do you need during the pandemic? Like, what would what do you need in order to be able to continue teaching, it's every case during this time, we also had focus groups around like the stimulus funding that was coming in, like what would teachers prioritize and spending those stimulus dollars at the state and at the district level. And every time we've reached out to teachers, consistently, they have told us that mental health was something that they were really concerned about. They were concerned about the mental health of their students, they knew that there were students at the very beginning of the pandemic, like students who need it services, and they were not getting those services, they understand that students were dealing with isolation, they were, you know, dealing with the challenges of the pandemic, like the pandemic, like, like they were, there were students who lost family members, they had family members to get sick, at the very beginning of the pandemic we even had tornadoes to come through. So there were some students who were displaced from their homes at the very beginning of the pandemic. So they understood that when students eventually came back to school, they're going to be coming back with a lot. And we need to be able to identify students who are dealing with mental health challenges, and then connect them with whatever resources they need. We don't have those systems in place right now, at least not in like it's scattershot. It's few and far between. So how do we work with districts to make sure that every school has a group of folks, counselors, teachers, therapists, like what do we need to make sure like so soon as we identify student who is dealing with a mental health challenge, we can connect them with the services that they need, we also need to be thoughtful about the mental health needs are teachers, because teachers have also been going through the same pandemic they've been, they've lost family members, they have dealt with the sickness. And they also need mental health resources as well. So how do we give teachers greater access to services, so a lot of the work we're doing right now is figuring out how to create those systems at the state level and at the district level, to make sure that students and teachers get the mental health services that they need.
Scott Lee 27:17
And a huge issue. I mean, I I keep thinking about part of the problem is helping students navigate accessing mental health services. I do some work right now with faculty of an alternative school, and I'm there fairly frequently, but not just to do workshops for professional learning. I'm there during school from time to time, I pass this therapist in the hall from time to time. But he just happens to have a large number of students that are in that school that are clients, so he sees them at the school, to make it easier for them to keep appointments, which is good.
Sandford Johnson 27:58
Yeah,
Scott Lee 27:58
but he is not available to any of the faculty, as far as even a consultant on mental health. That's outside of his his work. And he only sees about a third of the students based on insurance coverage. But it's so frustrating to see a therapist in a school, see a mental health professional, that is there on site, and he can't even work with, he only works with some of the students. And it's a perfect example of what you were just explaining.
Sandford Johnson 28:33
That's, I think that's the biggest challenge that our teachers have observed that in a lot of schools, like students who have a diagnosis or students who have experienced like a mental health crisis, like those are the students that we're identifying. And we're not even identifying all those students, right, in an adequate way. But how do we identify the student who had a rough weekend? And or something like just had a death in the family or just dealt with something that may have an impact on them? Like, how are we checking on those students? And how are we creating a school environment where a student knows that if I, if I'm dealing with a mental health challenge, I know exactly who I need to go to, like, I can go to this teacher, and I know that this teacher is gonna, like, talk to me without judgment and gonna point me in the direction of the resources that I need. So that's what we're trying to create for all students in all districts in Mississippi.
Scott Lee 29:29
Big job. [laughing] You mentioned earlier a little bit about your work with the Common Core and doing some advocacy there. How well have policymakers particularly elected officials listened to the work that you're doing and what actions are how amenable to taking action Have you found policymakers to be
Sandford Johnson 29:56
so I would say in the last decade half- decase plus, I've been involved in education policy that when legislators when policymakers have provided opportunities for, like to bring in teachers and listen to teachers and find out like what teachers think about different policy issues, that those are usually very constructive conversations, because, like, teachers bring a level of expertise that a lot of other folks cannot, because nobody can talk about how something is going to be implemented better than the folks who are actually in on the ground in the classrooms implementing the different policy decisions. So I think that's been helpful. I don't know if we do that enough. I don't know if we provide enough opportunities for teachers to, like, do hearings like to speak before, like our members are members of our legislature like they would there should be teachers who are meeting with our education committees, our appropriations committees every year, we also need more of our elected officials and our policymakers to spend time in classrooms. So you know, find out like, look in the classroom, like when a teacher is telling you like, I don't have this resource, I don't have that resource, they can tell you that, or you can go to the school and you can see it like you could go to gentry and see the flooding. Like you can go to some other school and like Quitman County, and you can see like, we need a new gym, we can go to Coamoma County, like we don't have enough teachers here. So you need to go and like go to the communities, seeing the things for yourself, and then like, listen to teachers and ask teachers like, what do you need? Like, what do you need in order to meet the needs of the students. So I would love to see more of that the as I say, like the times where we've had policymakers interact with teachers, those have been very constructive conversations. But we just don't do it enough. And when we, and I think this is one of the things that really helps Teach Plus stand out, when our teachers go before policymakers, we try to do it in a very solutions oriented way. So our teachers will definitely talk about the problems. But they're also prepared to say, here's how I think we should solve the problem. Like, here are my recommendations, I've done the research, I think we should be doing this to solve this problem. And I think that's why our conversations tend to be very constructive, because we'll definitely call out things that are not right. But then we'll let's have a conversation about how we're gonna fix it.
Scott Lee 32:16
And that's huge. I have myself been frequently just complaining about this and this and that, it's like, well, I need to be thinking about solutions, it's sometimes hard to, it's easy to get mad about something, it's not always easy to figure out, Okay, what's the solution, and if this is my solution, what would be as close as I can get to it, if that were to happen, you know, or be able to happen.
Sandford Johnson 32:44
It's been a, it's been interesting to see the impact of the fellowship on teachers after they're done of the year. Because, you know, our fellowship is only a year long their alumni opportunities, but like, like, the bulk of it is just that one year. Um, I remember there's one teacher in particular, in, you know, when you're with a group of teachers that like, they're going to definitely talk about the challenges that they're dealing with in their classroom. But there was one teacher in particular, there was a decision that was made at her school. And of course, there were some major concerns about it. So and this was like, in the spring, and just to see the conversation go from, like, this is what happened, and I'm not happy about it. But here's what happened in my school, I have scheduled a meeting with the superintendent, we are meeting with the teachers, and we're going to think about the agenda, these are the things that we want to talk about. And we're going to meet and have like these agenda items, this is gonna be our ask at the end of the meeting. And this is like, really organic, like teachers deciding to do this. And I've seen teachers take on greater leadership roles, not necessarily going into administration, but just like, here's a project that I want to see in my school, here's how I can make this happen. Here are the folks that I need to speak to in order to make that happen. So it has been fascinating to see teachers use the skills from the fellowship, and to be able to apply them in so many different places. So I think that's the best the thing that really stands out to me. It's funny, like seeing this conversation, I felt like my students like back when m- my 11th graders were doing something great in my US History class. I look at him like, so proud [laughing]. Great. It was a cool moment.
Scott Lee 34:21
That sounds like such interesting work. Best of luck with your work and continued work in Mississippi. And of course, Teach Plus is bigger than just Mississippi as well. I want to point out
Sandford Johnson 34:33
here we're in a we're in 12 states. We also have a fellowship in Arkansas and Texas, like we're all over the we're all over the south and Yeah, well, I would love to see like Teach Plus have presence throughout the SEC, because I'm from the south like I would love to see like just everywhere so yeah, we're working on that part.
Scott Lee 34:52
It's exciting work and continued work and, and I love the way you kind of ended with it. about, you know, the importance of the development of leadership at all levels, you know, because having been an administrator, I know when you're in a formal leadership, formal leadership position, it really is about when your school or your organization is successful, it's because enough people step up. And are those informal leaders are what make it what that that's what makes schools work and what makes effective schools become stronger and problem solving data driven organization. Exactly. Once again, Sanford Johnson, I want to thank you for spending time with us today, uh, sharing your work on the Thoughtful Teacher Podcast.
Sandford Johnson 35:44
Well, the pleasure has been all my thank you so much. And you got to come down to the Delta at some point,
Scott Lee 35:49
I would love to when travel opens up again, which I hope will be soon.
Sandford Johnson 35:54
No joke around to say as soon as outside opens up. Yeah, exactly.
Scott Lee 35:59
Once again, thank you and appreciate your time.
Sandford Johnson 36:03
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Scott. Appreciate it.
Scott Lee 36:08
The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast is brought to you as a service of Oncourse Education Solutions. If you would like to learn more about how we help schools and youth organizations, embed social emotional learning within their cultures, and implement strength based restorative interventions, please visit our website, www.oncoursesolutions.net. This has been episode 3 of the spring 2022 season. If you have enjoyed this podcast, please tell your friends and colleagues about it either in person or using social media. We also greatly appreciate positive reviews on the podcast app you use. The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast is hosted and produced by R. Scott Lee who retains copyright. We encourage diverse opinions, however, opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of producer, partners, or underwriters. Guests are never compensated for appearance, nor do guests pay to appear. Transcripts are available following podcast publication at our website, thoughtfulteacherpodcast.com. Sponsorship opportunities or other inquiries may be made on the "Contact Us: page at our website thoughtfulteacherpodcast.com. Please follow the thoughtful Teacher Podcast on Twitter @drrscottlee
