Confronting White Nationalism in Schools with Jessica Acee
For a variety of reasons, students bring white nationalist and extremist ideas into schools. For most educators this is a challenge because this is rarely a topic for professional learning and this is an unusually difficult topic to address. The Western States Center recently published the 2nd edition of their Confronting White Nationalism in Schools Toolkit and in this episode we discuss ways to deal with white nationalism and extremist rhetoric with one of the co-authors Jessica Acee.
Episode outline
Recent events of extremism and insurrection influence school cultures
How false narrative can influence students
How and why students are being recruited by white nationalist groups
How to use the Confronting White Nationalism in Schools Toolkit
Links
Viral thread Jessica mentioned by a mom/writer - Joanna Schroeder
A book Jessica suggests that is helpful in terms of having any kind of tough conversation in the classroom
To request a copy of the toolkit (free of charge):
Schools — Western States Center
Jessica also suggests this 6 part series on Medium geared towards parents/caregivers, but the conversation prompts absolutely work in school settings too.
UCLA Black Male Institute (mentioned by Scott)
https://blackmaleinstitute.org/
NYU Metropolitan Center for Research on Equity and the Transformation of Schools (mentioned by Scott)
https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/metrocenter
Transcript
Scott Lee 0:02
Greetings, friends and colleagues. Welcome to The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast. I am Scott Lee. I hope you are safe and well. This week we will take a short break from our restorative practices series for a timely discussion about dealing with white nationalism and extremism in schools. Many educators are concerned when faced with students who espouse or openly promote white nationalist ideas in our schools. Yet often, we are unsure about strategies to confront these issues with students. The national civil rights organization, the Western States Center, recently revised their Confronting White Nationalism in Schools Toolkit, and Jessica Acee, one of the co authors speaks with us today. Jessica is an educator, trainer and program developer based in Portland, Oregon. Prior to her her current role as Director of Student Leadership at St. Mary's Academy, she spent over a decade in independent school leadership in both Chicago and New York City. She is currently a senior fellow at the Western State center. Besides co-authoring the toolkit in this role, Jessica also trains and consults with schools nationally. She has recently been featured in media, including in the Washington Post, Oregon Public Broadcasting, The Guardian, In These Times, and to Al Jazeera America. So, welcome to The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast, Jessica Acee.
Jessica Acee 1:49
Thank you. I'm very glad to be here.
Scott Lee 1:51
Could you tell us a little bit about your professional journey and how you came to be involved in the Confronting White Nationalism in Schools Toolkit,
Jessica Acee 2:00
Sure. Well, when I graduated college, I was doing immigrant rights work. And that's that's where I saw my career, I was working with some local organizations. And I ended up applying for a Director of Admissions job at a private school in Chicago. And I got this position and really enjoyed it. And that started my career in education. So I have worked in schools for about 15 years now. I love being part of school communities. I have taught classes, I've done various administrative roles. And I'm currently developing programs for an all girls Catholic school in Portland, Oregon.
Scott Lee 2:35
What I'd like to do before we talk too much about the toolkit and about teachers in schools and what to do. I'd like for us to talk a little bit about the broader culture. And I'm thinking about this was a recent analysis done by the Chicago Project on Security and Threats. And they did a statistical analysis of locations, and the geography of where different people who were involved in the Capital Insurrection of January 6 lived. And what they found is that there was a statistical tendency that the people involved tended to live in places where non-white populations are growing rapidly. Is this something that surprises you?
Jessica Acee 3:26
It does not surprise me. I think the demographic anxiety in our country has been growing for a while. And it's nothing new. I mean, I remember when I was doing my immigrant rights work before I started working in schools, and I was in the Midwest, and there was a lot of demographic anxiety around who who belonged here who who would be considered an American? What would an America look like going forward? And that has only increased? I think, you know, we've seen, at least in you know, in my career, I can look to having our first African American president in the demographic anxiety that came with that, you know, the rise of white nationalist movements and anti-democratic movements are often fueled by this kind of anxiety of who belongs here who get who gets to vote who gets to who gets to be an American is really the underlying question. So it doesn't surprise me. And it's something that we certainly see pop up in schools as, as I think of them to be sort of a, an incubator for democracy. It's the place our students first get to experience what democracy can look like at its best. And so to see that demographic anxiety also coming up in schools, it makes sense. And it's really important that we take it seriously.
Scott Lee 4:36
That is interesting that you mentioned schools being the incubator of democracy, and I want to come back to that later on. But first off, I also noticed that you recently commented for a piece in BuzzFeed, about teachers actually being involved in extremist activities or supporting conspiratorial ideas. Can you Tell us more about this and kind of what's going on? Or your take on that?
Jessica Acee 5:04
Yes, I think that, you know, as we know, teachers make up a huge block of the workforce. And and teachers, you know, across the country represent, you know, the range of who are Americans? And a lot of ways, certainly we know, you know, it tends to be a female profession, it tends to, there are there's demographic data we have, but but politically teachers, you know, cover the spectrum. And so certainly, it's understandable, or we would assume that it would be the case that there would have been teachers involved in the instruction on January 6, or that there will be teachers who would be sympathetic to those anti-democratic ideas. I, I'm very alarmed by the fact that we have people working in schools with our young folks who are spreading misinformation. And and I think that that's, that's really where we have to dig in, like, schools need to take a strong stance, here are our values as an institution, and here's how we live out those values. And we value democracy and we value truth. And here's how we preserve those things. So when I was approached to talk to BuzzFeed about that, you know, I think you were living in really polarized times. It's not, you know, it's not surprising, but our students deserve better. And so I want to always challenge schools, especially school administrators to think about how we can lead with our values and lead with intention to preserve and grow our democracy and and that requires real information that requires truth.
Scott Lee 6:27
And I'm also thinking about the more nuanced thing, or a more nuanced issue. If I'm a teacher or a school administrator. And I see a colleague attending something like a "unite the right" rally, you're openly advocating untruths, and conspiratorial issues or saying things that clearly violate our values. I know how to deal with that. That's easy. Well, it's never easy. But figuring out a course of action is not difficult. Do you have any thoughts about what you might do with somebody who is say, a little bit more subtle, where you've got some suspicions, you may hear some things that, you know, is definitely more beyond just a joke in the teacher work room, but you can't really put your finger on it. But you know, that it's there. Do you have any thoughts or ideas for administrators in particular, that might find themselves in that type of situation?
Jessica Acee 7:29
Yeah, that's a hard one. And I appreciate the question, because it's also the the majority of conversations that I have around this topic, include what I kind of call some signaling. So it's not like an overt expression, but it's just bubbling up a little bit. And it's, you know, it's a nice place to be in some instances, because you haven't gotten to a tipping point, or, you know, maybe you haven't reached a school safety issue, which is oftentimes where these things go, but you have, you know, you notice, and then you have an opportunity to act. So it's a, it's a good place to be in that sense, I would say, you know, and I don't know how helpful This is to school administrators, because it requires work, it requires work. But what we're really talking about are school climate and culture issues. This is about your community and the kind of culture you're fostering at your school. So if you have worked hard to make sure that your school community for everyone who's involved parents, students, teachers, staff, librarians, whatever, if everybody who's involved in the life of your school community knows that you're a school that values a sense of belonging that you value, a multiracial, you know, experience and shared, you know, bringing people shared cultures together, if you are a school community that has symbols, you know, visuals of inclusivity, and acceptance and belonging up on your walls, and you lead with those values when you are having all school assemblies or when you're gathering for whatever you might gather for, you know, that makes a big difference. Because then you're saying, like, here is here is what binds us together. And people who, you know, who don't align with that it's a lot more noticeable.
Scott Lee 9:01
Hmm. Sometimes it can be difficult to have to make that confrontation, confrontation and violence are two different things. And we always need to make sure and be clear about that. But yeah,
Jessica Acee 9:13
Culture change is hard work. I mean, it's not something that everyone is trained in when they move up the ranks to become a school administrator or go to you know, go to graduate school or doctorate school. It's not always those aren't always courses that we take or training that we have, there are people who are really good at it, and lifting those those people aren't as important, but it does, you know, it does, it takes work and it's not an innate skill for all of us.
Scott Lee 9:36
I'd like to also talk about the effect on students. There's oftentimes a narrative centered around criminality of particularly adolescent males of color, boys of color, things like gang involvement, drug involvement, and things like that. And of course, we know from the research, and there's some excellent people out there doing some work on that, Tyrone Howard at UCLA's Black Male Institute. David Kirkland at New York City's [University] Steinhardt College of Education are wonderful places for people to look about this false narrative. But what I'm curious about and what your thoughts are, I want to look at it from a couple of different perspectives. One is how this false narrative, because we know boys who grow up in poverty, and in communities of color are no more or less likely to be involved in criminal activity than boys and more white and or suburban areas. So that's sort of the false narrative and talking about and it usually involves popular culture, you know, things around gangs and gang culture. First off, how do you see this false narrative is being used to help grow white nationalist propaganda?
Jessica Acee 10:54
That's a great question, I might take a step back if it's okay, and say that schools have a moral responsibility, I believe, to engage in equity work, especially now, we have had that for a long time, but no longer you know, can we can we not do that. And so, if you are a school leader, if you are a teacher, an administrator, if you have any access to demographic information in your school, it is your responsibility to take a look at that information and say, Gosh, our black population is 20% of the school and they make up 50% of the disciplinary cases, why is that we all have choice points points in our life, where we can lean into the power that we have, even if you're not a school administrator, your peers, the teacher, you can lean into the power that you have and make a choice that lines up with racial justice and equity principles, as opposed to maybe doing what we've always done, which is easy to do in schools. There's a lot of work to be done, and you sort of get flowing, and you're just doing what you've always done. And that's easy. And there's, you know, I understand that, but we have a responsibility to take a look at our own data and start there and say, you know, I'll give another example. Maybe you all your school offers AP classes, but they're majority white, and your school is not majority white. So what you know, what can we do? What are we not offering, what systems do we have in place that are preventing equal access to opportunity for all of our students. So that goes a long way. And that that's also a school climate and culture issue, and that fosters belonging. So all these things, as I know, you know, are all tied together, white nationalists are white nationals organizations are recruiting young people because they want to build their base. And so they are going to appeal to those young folks in any way that they can or that they find successful. And we know that the teenagers in our lives, middle school, high school, maybe college students are seeking belonging, it's a developmentally appropriate time to be looking for a place to fit in and to be looking to make sense of the world around you and to understand how all the pieces fit together. So if white nationalist groups are offering some kind of explanation for that, that we are not, that we, as school leaders are not offering or not, we're not filling in that space, are not offering places to connect and find belonging. That's a problem.
Scott Lee 13:04
And that, and that's an interesting concept also to, you know, to bring up and remember, you know, it is, despite sometimes what some policymakers say it is incumbent on schools, to create that sense of belonging. To offer that, you know, that is part of part of what we do. And sometimes there are some policymakers who, you know, will push back on that and say, "Oh, no, you've got to, you know, you're only there to teach, you know, reading, writing and math, and nothing more". I hear about that all the time and read about it all the time. So it is important, I think you're right, that we push back and say no, there is more to what we do than that. And sometimes people, particularly outside the profession, but who have influenced with the profession don't really understand that. Could you tell us what kinds of methods extremist groups groups are using to recruit school aged youth?
Jessica Acee 14:02
Yeah, well, as you can imagine, they spend a lot of time online. And our young people also spend a lot of time online. So this year, especially, I think, has been really tricky to navigate the white nationalist. So white nationalist groups across the country are pretty wide ranging in terms of their scope, their tactics, their goals, their membership, size, all sorts of things. So we're not talking about a homogenous group of people, but white nationalist groups, white nationalist messaging certainly shows up in chat rooms and video game platforms on YouTube and on Tick Tock and all the places that our young people are, you know, they have their own bands, they'll show up and music spaces to a lot of the content is meant to be edgy or like provocative in a way that could be like fun or sarcastic and you want to kind of like, it feels a little bit radical and you want to engage with it in a certain way. And then, you know, I think probably a lot of your listeners are aware too, of how the algo This work, and I'm not an expert, but there's certainly a lot of research out there, but you sort of get a taste of something. And then they want to keep you engaged in their platform and to keep, you know, you viewing advertising content. And so it's just a downward spiral where you are shown increasingly extreme content. So that's a component of it to the way the algorithms on these on these social media platforms work. And they're not very responsible for the kind of content that they are putting out there. But white nationalist groups are also just using that as a way to reach young folks who are who have questions about their own identity or about the world around them, and, and who are drawn into, into their messaging, I think, you know, it also can happen to a lesser degree, but certainly in person, if you have a group active in your community that might be firing on your school campus, or we've seen this certainly with with more college level examples, but white nationalist groups are not, they're not out there trying to spread a hateful message as their main goal. They're trying to build political power, they want to grow their membership base, they want, you know, the next generation of city officials of water board members of school, school board, elected officials, you know, they're looking at growing their base and they want, you know, they want young people to grow up with them in this movement.
Scott Lee 16:10
I noticed that when I was looking at the toolkit, you showed some examples, specific examples of some of the messaging that they're using. And yeah, it is very much using positive message. As a history teacher. I know 100 years ago, the messaging was very, it was pretty clear. And living in a place that at one time was Jim Crow laws were in effect, I'm in Tennessee, it was very obvious, and what hate hate groups did was very obvious. And this is much more tricky, and much more subtle than what I think a lot of people are used to.
Jessica Acee 16:47
It is it is and it's meant to be. It's meant to appeal to young folks. I mean, that's the thing, too, they're not, they're not hiding that they're not catching that in other language, they're pretty explicit that they are looking to recruit young people. And so all the things that young people find fun, like the graphics, and the different lights, and the you know, sparkles or whatever, like, you know, when you look at their materials online, it's clearly meant to appeal to young folks.
Scott Lee 17:10
Let's talk a little bit about the toolkit itself, most of the toolkit, and for people who want to find out more about the toolkit, they can get a free copy at the Western States Center, and we will have a link to that on our website for everybody who is listening. Most of it you provide scenarios of different situations, and then explain what you should and shouldn't do various roles teachers, administrators, parents, and students, people in that role should be doing and not doing, which I think is very helpful. What scenarios Do you see that are more common amongst those several that you give? What is it? Or is there one or two that are that are just more common that that somebody is most likely to say your deal with?
Jessica Acee 17:59
I was eager to answer your question. Sorry, for cutting you off, I think this year for sure. What we have seen the most of our students putting, you know, changing their avatars, or their virtual backgrounds to include racist symbols, either the more explicit, you know, swastika, or you know, some of the cartoon like a Pepe the Frog, maybe not everybody knows quite what to do with. So that that I've seen a lot this year, and I've had a lot of conversations with teachers about what to you know what to do. In that instance, I think it's really common to that students, especially at high school students who will bring up white nationalists, or anti democratic sources in history or English papers, that's something we hear a lot about. And then anonymous, graffiti is forever common. You know, it's a little bit different this year, most of us haven't been in the building or in buildings with as much free movement among our students as we might have in the past. So I think that that that looks a little different this year. But those are, those are pretty common experiences that I have experienced in that I've talked to teachers and other colleagues, administrators who have experienced too. And the toolkit is really intended to give people as many resources as we could possibly think of when we wrote it. It's not a one size fit all document. We know there are plenty of different kinds of schools out there that run different ways. And they have different populations and different needs and wants. And so we really just tried to put as many resources together as we could, where if you had one of these situations, or another one that's in the toolkit, you could go and you could get a few ideas.
Scott Lee 19:24
Yeah, and I and I think about it as a history, civics person, I taught both for many years. And I think about particularly citations, although it was a little bit different. The last time I taught history, but because it's so much easier to find the citations and a lot of them are are so obscure, you might not know it's only been recent that I think people have heard of like Richard Spencer, who you mentioned specifically in the toolkit, would it be a good idea or helpful for teachers to sort of limit the sources students can use and papers and things like that on the front end.
Jessica Acee 20:04
Well, in my fantasy land, we would offer some kind of rubric or people where students could kind of run through a few questions to check against our sources. But also my Fantasyland, everybody has a really robust media digital literacy program. So, you know, we're talking Jessica's Fantasyland, things like a little bit different. And I understand that, you know, teachers have to make choices with their time and their resources. But if we can offer our students some, you know, some critical questions to ask before they select a source, that's one avenue, it's also really important to be clear about, you know, your classroom norms and agreements and expectations and the values that you hold in your classroom. So that some of these, you know, there might be a c-[citation] source that holds up against your rubric, but doesn't, you know, align with the values of your institution. And that's important too. And sometimes these things come up, and they are, they're teachable moments, there are opportunities to ask why questions, and that's one of the things that I think for many teachers, not certainly not all of them, there's some anxiety that comes with having these hard conversations in a classroom setting. You know, many of us have planned our lesson plan, and we sort of know where we're going and where we want to end up and you have limited time. And so it can feel hard, but being curious, either in the moment, or at a different time when you're, you know, one on one with a student, or you know, bringing in a librarian or bringing someone else in being curious and asking like, why did you select this source? What feels like truth to you and this like, be curious and, and ask questions. And that's the way that we can get around the fact that the world is changing very rapidly. And we can't it's too much for all of us to be holding in our heads, all the new iterations of Pepe the Frog and all the new Richard Spencer is all the time it's too much. So. So being curious, I think is the way to get around that.
Scott Lee 21:45
And I think about also schools that are using things like positive behavior supports and or multi-tiered systems of supports, restorative practice and things like that. If a student does or says something that potentially damages or involves the emotional, emotional safety of another student, a lot of times you have a process to do that. But then you wouldn't, I'm not sure that some people all the time would think about, oh, wow, we could use the same the same tools, that we already have the same interventions that you already have my work.
Jessica Acee 22:22
Absolutely. And again, these are school culture issues. And so if you have tools that you're already using to build positive school culture, then by all means apply those tools in these situations for sure.
Scott Lee 22:34
So the other thing I wanted to talk about as far as curricula goes, do you see problems with particularly history and civics curricula in general, that does not do a good enough job of talking about or teaching students about the problems with white nationalism and or extremism in our history? I mean, this is not something that just appeared in 2008, or ended in 1865.
Jessica Acee 23:04
Yes, I do think we have to do better there. And I think that we owe it to all of our students to our white students and our students of color to diversify our curriculums to lift up black and brown voices to talk about to talk about what contributions those communities have made and all and also what it has cost them, you know, where they have been, have been wronged in unbelievable ways. And and that's not happening in very many places, for sure. And would that help to confront white nationalism in schools? Yes, but the work of the toolkit is really meant to be applicable in spaces where that's happening. That's not happening. Big curricular overhauls, take, especially in public schools take a lot of time. And so I just want to encourage folks to take the steps that they can take, if you have the power to change the curriculum in your course, great. If you have the power to do some of your own self equity and identity work, please do that. But our goal is just that beyond the scope of sort of equity, inclusion, reparations, you know, these really big being an anti racist school, anti racist teacher centering the black experience, these are really big, really big, important issues. And also, you know, we have to be able to take the steps that we can take now in our classes, like, you know, today, in 45 minutes, you know, we have to be able to pivot and act quickly. So, I hope that the tool can offer some resources to that end as well.
Scott Lee 24:24
I want to set up a scenario for you also, because I want to give some context around it, because this is something that I noticed and that I saw myself very recently and it made me think about what I would do you if I were still based in a school all day every day, like I once was. A few weeks ago, I was walking my dog in my neighborhood, and I'm walking by one of the people that takes care of the lawn of a neighbor. Nice guy. I've talked to him on several occasions. And I'm walking past the back of his truck and in the back window of his truck I see the symbol for the Three Percenters, which is a militia group. I knew it was an extremist group wasn't sure that much about what they were compared to other people. And so you go to Anti Defamation League and Southern Poverty Law Center and look them up. And as I'm reading about the three percenters, they are more of a militia group, but they are not overtly racist. And they would argue we're not racist at all. We're opposed to immigration, illegal immigration and for some other things. But still, this is an extremist group. Do you have any suggestions for potentially dealing with parents who may have sympathies for a group and possibly sympathies for a more nuanced group like the three percenters who can, in their own way argue, race has nothing to do with it? We're not racist. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Jessica Acee 26:12
Yeah, that's a that's a common defense. And we have a section in the toolkit for common defenses, but people saying like, racism doesn't exist anymore. We're not racist, we're just focused on XYZ, we just want to protect our guns, we just want to whatever it might be, you know, those are those are talking points that come up, for sure. This is a hard one, I think I always focus on centering. And this is just my own personal pedagogical philosophy, centering the experience of students and their growth and development. And so in schools, we have a lot of, we have a lot of room to do that. And we have a lot of tools at our disposal, it's, you know, it's harder, maybe and different, or maybe just feels harder to me, because I'm not operating in the sphere every day. But to think about broader community response, although there are great organizations who are doing that work, Western State center among them. But when we're talking about about schools, you know, we know from research that the number one most effective way to to reach a student who is being indoctrinated to some degree into extremist ideology, or dangerous I should say extremist ideology, because not all of it is not all extremism, it's, it's dangerous, or fits on one side of the spectrum or the other. But the best way to reach that student is for them to have a trusted adult that they can talk to, and you really only just need one. But somebody who you feel like understands you who you feel comfortable talking to. So some of some of this feels harder and bigger and scarier than I think that statement. So I understand if people are listening to this and thinking like, yeah, obviously. But but it really matters. It really matters to have people that adults that students can trust and look up to and to have those adults also share values of inclusive, multiracial democracy that we all would benefit from living in. So that's one thing I would say, too, I would say, to what degree we can reach a family through a student, I don't know. But we can certainly we can certainly change the scope and experience of students in our high schools. And, and shame is a really powerful emotion, especially for for young men. And you know, it works in different ways for all of us. And certainly it can be it can be a powerful positive emotion. But I think a lot of schools, it's sort of baked in, I think, to some of our, our generational experiences of school, to use shame as a tool. And it's not an effective one when we're talking about, about young students who are dabbling signalling, white nationalists Association. So being cognizant of that, I think helps in the way that we reach out to students and talk and, and be curious, there are some great examples of conversations you can have with your kids. Joanna Schroder wrote something about a year ago that I can send you the link to if you'd like to post it with this podcast, but it's uh, it was about how to have conversations with her teenage sons around what they're seeing online. So a lot of that we can adapt for ourselves as educators Western State Center also put out something for parents and caregivers that gives a lot of sort of questions, conversation starters, and prompts of how you can initiate some of these conversations with your students to get at what they believe. You know, why is that funny? At whose expense is that funny? Why do you think that's funny? There are, you know, it takes time and it takes relationships, but there are ways to have conversations with students who are who are bringing this type of affiliation and these types of values from their home life into the school.
Scott Lee 29:34
It's very interesting that you continue to bring up the importance of a trusted adult and and being relational. I didn't intend this to be this particular episode is sandwiched in the middle of a series about restorative practice and that fits so well. Again, all of the tools continue to come down to developing trusting relationships with students.
Jessica Acee 30:01
It really does. It really does. And, and we know, you know, there's a University of Virginia study that came out maybe a couple years at this point, but very few Americans identify as members of a white nationalist group, but about 30% of Americans identify and agree with one or more tenants of white nationalism, so maybe they they feel like America should be a predominantly white nation or, you know, they they identify with some of the the core values of white nationalism. So these ideas are not they're not hard to find. They're, they're quite prevalent. Now. I certainly, you know, we can see them if we just read the news. But in many of our communities, there are a lot of students who are bringing these ideas into the school building. So I think you're exactly right, all the tools that we can make use of at our disposal, anything that we can do to lift up our schools, goals, values, and to build strong culture and community all of that really makes a difference. And it's not, it's not tangible. You know, you can it's harder to measure, I understand that. But it really does make a difference. And it's something we can do proactively before we're faced with a harder situation or a harder problem to solve.
Scott Lee 31:06
Thank you so much for appearing with us today and speaking to us. We also are going to have some additional resources on our website suggested by Jessica as well. Once again, thank you so much, Jessica Acee for being with us today on The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast.
Jessica Acee 31:24
It was a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much.
Scott Lee 31:27
The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast is brought to you by our partner, Oncourse Education Solutions. If you would like to learn more about how we help schools and youth organizations implement high quality. equitable interventions, please visit our website oncoursesolutions.net. This has been episode number 27. If you have enjoyed this podcast, please tell your friends and colleagues about it either in person or using social media. We also greatly appreciate positive reviews on the podcast app you use. The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast is hosted and produced by R. Scott Lee, who retains copyright. We encourage diverse opinions, however, opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of producer, partners, or underwriters. Guest was not compensated for appearance, nor did guest pay to appear. Transcripts are available following podcast publication at our website, thoughtfulteacherpodcast.com . Sponsorship opportunities or other inquiries may be made on the "Contact Us" page at our website thoughtfulteacherpodcast.com. Please follow the Thoughtful Teacher Podcast on twitter @drrscottlee and on facebook at facebook.com Thoughtful Teacher Podcast.
